What makes Americans and Europeans happy?

by Deborah Braconnier report

(PhysOrg.com) -- According to a new research study, Europeans are happier when they have a day off and work less, while their American counterparts would rather be working those extra hours. Published in the Journal of Happiness Studies, the research, led by Adam Okulicz-Kozaryn from the University of Texas, looks at survey results of Europeans and Americans and how they identified being happy.

Based on the study results, who described themselves as being "very happy" went from 28 percent down to 23 percent as their work hours increased. , on the other hand, remained at 43 percent regardless of how many hours they worked.

The researchers say that due to a lack of research in this field, they cannot completely say that working more hours makes people happier, though they do have a few explanations.

Their thoughts on the reasoning behind the results point toward the different aspirations and self-worth people have. Europeans tend to be more concerned with enjoying and living life to the fullest, while Americans are busy following the “American Dream” and traveling a road toward financial success.

Previous research shows that can come from wealth and as a person’s income and employment status increase, so does their satisfaction with life. Americans believe that their hard is what will move them up the ladder, so they appear happier while working more hours. They believe that by working these hours, they are achieving more and reaching more.

The researchers would like to conduct more studies, perhaps comparing the different European countries with America instead of all of Europe as a whole. They believe is tied to what people’s goals are, and comparing the different goals of the people in the different countries would need to be considered as well.

More information: Europeans Work to Live and Americans Live to Work (Who is Happy to Work More: Americans or Europeans?), by Adam Okulicz-Kozaryn, JOURNAL OF HAPPINESS STUDIES, Volume 12, Number 2, 225-243, DOI:10.1007/s10902-010-9188-8
Abstract
This paper compares the working hours and life satisfaction of Americans and Europeans using the World Values Survey, Eurobarometer and General Social Survey. The purpose is to explore the relationship between working hours and happiness in Europe and America. Previous research on the topic does not test the premise that working more makes Americans happier than Europeans. The findings suggest that Americans may be happier working more because they believe more than Europeans do that hard work is associated with success.

via Livescience

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CreepyD
not rated yet Apr 19, 2011
Doesn't say how many people were surveyed.
42% is a huge difference to 28% though!
dav_i
5 / 5 (2) Apr 19, 2011
Doesn't say how many people were surveyed.
42% is a huge difference to 28% though!

Unless there were only seven people surveyed...
askantik
not rated yet Apr 19, 2011
I'd like to see the US broken down by states, or at least regions, and Europe broken down by countries. Yes, the US is as big as all of Western Europe, but the sociopolitical situations have a lot more variety in the different countries of Europe than in the states of the US.
Vendicar_Decarian
2.6 / 5 (14) Apr 19, 2011
"I'd like to see the US broken down by states." - Askantik

The U.S. is already broken down. By states or nationally.

As to the survey, it shows nicely how Americans prefer grubbing for money over caring for their family. Hence the failure of the American Family and because of an adequate level of socialization, the resulting culture of inferiority, violence and stupidity that is found in the U.S.

I find it amusing that the nation whose people spend the most time grubbing for every dime they can get, is now broke beyond imagination due to 30 years of Borrow and Spend Republican Treason.

XQuantumKnightX
5 / 5 (4) Apr 19, 2011
This can not be right! I have been trying to work less and spend more time enjoying life with my family for years now. It seem that we earn just enough to pay bills with a little extra to get by. The problem is that big greedy corporations are dictating work hours and have created an environment where people think they can succeed by working for them. This is false and what I feel is wrong with America's economy, marriages and family values. Employment destroys humanity's true self sufficient state of being. We should all be entrepreneurs and sell the fruits of our passion, what ever they may be. The problem is that we have Wal Marts and huge companies who sucks up all the market. So please do feed in to the ideal every body in America enjoy's being a corporate modern day slave.
frajo
4.3 / 5 (7) Apr 19, 2011
Perhaps US Americans feel more _compelled_ to report happiness than Europeans as they see happiness to be closely coupled to success which is the dominant value in the prevailing material ideology. Admitting to not being happy is seen as equivalent to being unsuccessful which is perceived as being worthless.
Modernmystic
2.6 / 5 (5) Apr 19, 2011
"I'd like to see the US broken down by states." - Askantik

The U.S. is already broken down. By states or nationally.

As to the survey, it shows nicely how Americans prefer grubbing for money over caring for their family. Hence the failure of the American Family and because of an adequate level of socialization, the resulting culture of inferiority, violence and stupidity that is found in the U.S.

I find it amusing that the nation whose people spend the most time grubbing for every dime they can get, is now broke beyond imagination due to 30 years of Borrow and Spend Republican Treason.



http://en.wikiped...uoxetine

http://en.wikiped...macology

ryggesogn2
2.2 / 5 (10) Apr 19, 2011
Borrow and Spend Republican Treason.

Like the 2 trillion recently borrowed and spent by the Obama, Reid and Pelosi, NOT republicans.
Modernmystic
3.4 / 5 (5) Apr 19, 2011
Perhaps US Americans feel more _compelled_ to report happiness than Europeans as they see happiness to be closely coupled to success which is the dominant value in the prevailing material ideology. Admitting to not being happy is seen as equivalent to being unsuccessful which is perceived as being worthless.


Two years ago I'd have called you a nutter commie pinko for making a statement like that....now not so much.

That's not to say I think capitalism is bad, or produces bad outcomes...quite the contrary. You do make a good point about the CULTURE we have in American though.
Question
not rated yet Apr 19, 2011
Borrow and Spend Republican Treason.

Like the 2 trillion recently borrowed and spent by the Obama, Reid and Pelosi, NOT republicans.

The major reason for our huge Federal deficits is to keep our economy from falling into a Second Great Depression caused by years of huge trade deficits.
Just look around the world, Germany, Canada, China, Australia and other countries running trade surpluses are doing just fine.
ryggesogn2
4.2 / 5 (5) Apr 19, 2011
Perhaps US Americans feel more _compelled_ to report happiness than Europeans as they see happiness to be closely coupled to success which is the dominant value in the prevailing material ideology. Admitting to not being happy is seen as equivalent to being unsuccessful which is perceived as being worthless.


Two years ago I'd have called you a nutter commie pinko for making a statement like that....now not so much.

That's not to say I think capitalism is bad, or produces bad outcomes...quite the contrary. You do make a good point about the CULTURE we have in American though.


What is THE 'American' culture?
With 300 million people from all over the world, I expect there would be more than one.
ryggesogn2
2.9 / 5 (10) Apr 19, 2011
Borrow and Spend Republican Treason.

Like the 2 trillion recently borrowed and spent by the Obama, Reid and Pelosi, NOT republicans.

The major reason for our huge Federal deficits is to keep our economy from falling into a Second Great Depression caused by years of huge trade deficits.
Just look around the world, Germany, Canada, China, Australia and other countries running trade surpluses are doing just fine.

Just another excuse for democrats to spend more to buy votes.
I don't think those countries are doing 'just fine'.
Doug_Huffman
4 / 5 (5) Apr 19, 2011
Atlas is shrugging. Retire. Strike! If you can't, ask yourself, moocher, looter or producer? Producers can strike.

As from Frank Herbert's DUNE, "The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it."
FrankHerbert
1.7 / 5 (12) Apr 19, 2011
Ryggesogn2, TARP was passed by the Bush administration. Please stop your dishonesty. It is very transparent.

Lil Douggie, I don't exactly consider Frank Herbert a philosopher, but he certainly is more qualified than Rand. Herbert got some things right. Rand got everything wrong.
Husky
not rated yet Apr 19, 2011
I bet the chinese would love to trade the need for sleep for even more available hours of working their way up and be incredibly happy, but it would pretty much suck for people at the low end of the bell curve who put in the hours but lack the skills/creativity to trancend.
Paljor
not rated yet Apr 19, 2011
we need more info.
Modernmystic
5 / 5 (1) Apr 19, 2011
Lil Douggie, I don't exactly consider Frank Herbert a philosopher, but he certainly is more qualified than Rand. Herbert got some things right. Rand got everything wrong.


Where do you fall in that? You got everything right?
CSharpner
5 / 5 (3) Apr 19, 2011
The way I care for my family is I provide for them. Unfortunately, the more I provide for them, the less time I get to spend with them. It's a balancing act. I take strong offense to the comment that as an American, I'm "grubbing for money over caring for [my] family". I'd like my kids to have a good future and the odds of that are increased with a good education, which means I've got to save lots of money to pay for that education, which means I have to put in extra hours, sacrifice by not buying the latest and greatest wide screen, 3D, HDTVs and such to make that happen. If I didn't care for them, I'd be lazy and wouldn't put in the extra effort and would buy myself more and nicer things. I make great sacrifices for my family BY working hard.
Thrasymachus
3 / 5 (4) Apr 19, 2011
A trade deficit is not a bad thing for a nation. In fact, it's a good thing, as it means the country possess more real resources, and the only thing it costs them are worthless dollars. But it does mean that so long as the private sector insists on net saving, the public sector must run a deficit to cover both the net saving and the external deficit. Public sector deficits are only a bad thing when the economy is no longer capable of real growth.
Simonsez
4.3 / 5 (4) Apr 19, 2011
@ Vendicar Decarian
"I'd like to see the US broken down by states." - Askantik

The U.S. is already broken down. By states or nationally.

As to the survey, it shows nicely how Americans prefer grubbing for money over caring for their family. Hence the failure of the American Family and because of an adequate level of socialization, the resulting culture of inferiority, violence and stupidity that is found in the U.S.

I find it amusing that the nation whose people spend the most time grubbing for every dime they can get, is now broke beyond imagination due to 30 years of Borrow and Spend Republican Treason.

I find it amusing that you have a chip on your shoulder about AGW and Republicans, and an internet history via quick google search showing you have more of an interest in politics and hating America than in science.
trekgeek1
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 19, 2011
What makes Americans and Europeans happy?


Boobies
beelize54
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 19, 2011
What makes Americans and Europeans happy?
I'd guess, it's oil of poor Arabians..
Skeptic_Heretic
5 / 5 (3) Apr 19, 2011
I'd like to see the US broken down by states, or at least regions, and Europe broken down by countries. Yes, the US is as big as all of Western Europe, but the sociopolitical situations have a lot more variety in the different countries of Europe than in the states of the US.

You've obviously never been to the US. There's one thing that we certainly lead the western world in... Economic disparity.
Borrow and Spend Republican Treason.

Like the 2 trillion recently borrowed and spent by the Obama, Reid and Pelosi, NOT republicans.
Lie elsewhere Mr. Swenson.
Bigblumpkin36
5 / 5 (1) Apr 19, 2011
I like beer it makes me happy.
Question
5 / 5 (1) Apr 19, 2011
A trade deficit is not a bad thing for a nation. In fact, it's a good thing, as it means the country possess more real resources, and the only thing it costs them are worthless dollars. But it does mean that so long as the private sector insists on net saving, the public sector must run a deficit to cover both the net saving and the external deficit. Public sector deficits are only a bad thing when the economy is no longer capable of real growth.

Money is oil of an economy, you send it overseas for worthless plastic toys that end up in our dumps and eventually a countries economy will grind to a halt.
That is where the US is today. One major way of getting this money back into our economy is to run deficits and borrow it back. Our years of trade deficits is the major cause of our Federal deficit. What do you think the money sent overseas is not something our children won't have to earn back some day? They definitely will, and that means working to pay for our excesses.
Question
5 / 5 (3) Apr 19, 2011
Of course we can replace the money lost because of our trade deficits other ways. We can sell off part of the homestead or print more money. Well, we have been doing that already. You can only do that for so many years before you end up living in a country with a declining living standard. Oh, that is already happening in this country also. Well at least for the bottom 90%.
Phideaux
not rated yet Apr 19, 2011
Google the country of Bhutan. The country has a policy of Gross National Happiness. Some other countruis are taking a closer look at this. I would be very curious as to what others think about this.
Thrasymachus
1 / 5 (5) Apr 19, 2011
Selling off part of the homestead just means shifting the export balance from deficit to surplus. Models of sustainable household finance are not generalizable to the public sector, nor to the economy as a whole. Standards of living in an economy depend upon two factors: the stock of real resources in an economy and a sufficient distribution of money to reflect the real demand for those resources. A trade deficit increases the stock of real resources in an economy. It represents a flow of real resources into an economy and a flow of money out of the economy. Net private savings also represents a flow of money out of the economy. Government deficits are necessary to create a flow of money into the economy to offset the increase in real resources from the trade deficit and the depletion of money from both the trade deficit and net private savings in order to prevent deflation.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (6) Apr 19, 2011
Perhaps US Americans feel more _compelled_ to report happiness than Europeans as they see happiness to be closely coupled to success which is the dominant value in the prevailing material ideology. Admitting to not being happy is seen as equivalent to being unsuccessful which is perceived as being worthless.
Herr Ausländer

Perhaps you would have a more meaningful perspective if you weren't viewing the US through a gauze of euro soft propaganda?

As to the article, I think euros were happy invading each other but can no longer do so which causes much angst. I think Americans were happy arriving to finish what euros started, because it made us feel righteous. This we can still do and derive much pleasure from. Next stop- Belarus?
Question
5 / 5 (2) Apr 19, 2011
Selling off part of the homestead just means shifting the export balance from deficit to surplus. Models of sustainable household finance are not generalizable to the public sector, nor to the economy as a whole. Standards of living in an economy depend upon two factors: the stock of real resources in an economy and a sufficient distribution of money to reflect the real demand for those resources. A trade deficit increases the stock of real resources in an economy. It represents a flow of real resources into an economy and a flow of money out of the economy. Net private savings also represents a flow of money out of the economy. Government deficits are necessary to create a flow of money into the economy to offset the increase in real resources from the trade deficit and the depletion of money from both the trade deficit and net private savings in order to prevent deflation.

Wow, no wonder the US economy is in such dire straights!
Question
5 / 5 (1) Apr 19, 2011
Thrasymachus quote, "Selling off part of the homestead just means shifting the export balance from deficit to surplus."

Wrong! In no way do you go from a debt to selling off part of your homestead to being even. All it means is that we are now working, part of our time, for a company or country that cares very little about our future. And we still have to earn (buy) back that part of our homestead some time in the future. Of course, I forgot, that is our children's problem.
You see a trade deficit is actually worst than our internal Federal deficit. It is the mother of our internal Federal deficits and we cannot inflate our way out of trade deficit.
Thrasymachus
3 / 5 (2) Apr 19, 2011

Wow, no wonder the US economy is in such dire straights!

Nice counter argument.
Thrasymachus
1.8 / 5 (5) Apr 19, 2011
A trade deficit in no way implies any kind of debt. It means the total price of all your exported goods is less than the total price of all your imported goods. You don't have to go into any kind of debt to have a trade deficit. Only in an economy where the money supply is fixed does a trade deficit imply debt, and then that debt can be carried by either the public or private sector. We don't live in that kind of economy, the money supply is not fixed, and since changes in the value of the dollar relative to the currencies of our trading partners have a well-defined effect on our trade balance, the evidence suggests you certainly can inflate your way out of a trade deficit, although I can't imagine why you would want to. Trade deficits are a good thing, household deficits are a bad thing, and in order to maintain the good thing and avoid the bad thing, public deficits are a necessary thing.
Question
not rated yet Apr 19, 2011
Thrasymachus: I guess I am just not smart enough to comprehend your reasoning.
Here is another way of looking at it. When we run a trade deficit it means we are buying (consuming) more than we are producing. That is a debt just as sure as taking out a second mortgage on your home to buy a new car. It has to be paid back to the bank (or exporting country) some day, some how.

PinkElephant
5 / 5 (4) Apr 19, 2011
A trade deficit increases the stock of real resources in an economy.
No it does not. It merely exports productive enterprise, and high-wage jobs. Left behind is an eviscerated "service economy", and a progressively impoverished population.
It represents a flow of real resources into an economy and a flow of money out of the economy.
No. Real resources result from PRODUCTION. We are currently spending previously-accumulated wealth, by purchasing outputs of foreign production. With this, we are stimulating economic growth in foreign nations (which are exporting to us), while at the same time destroying our own economy in the process.
Government deficits are necessary to create a flow of money into the economy
No, they are necessary because we are used to spending more than we earn. We're living on borrowed time, by running up our collective credit card. We are already utterly bankrupt as a nation, and only dig our financial grave deeper with each passing year.
PinkElephant
4.7 / 5 (3) Apr 19, 2011
changes in the value of the dollar relative to the currencies of our trading partners have a well-defined effect on our trade balance
No they don't. Most other nations peg the value of their currencies to the dollar. All a devaluing dollar does, is destroy any savings accumulated by the more prudent Americans, and encourage malinvestment and misallocation of capital in a vain pursuit of high return as a way to outpace inflation. It also undermines our ability to borrow (because it results in higher interest rates demanded by lenders), and thus it escalates -- rather than alleviates -- our debt burden. Inflation has no other effect than impoverishing the country on the whole.
Thrasymachus
2 / 5 (4) Apr 19, 2011
Pink, a trade deficit has nothing to do with exporting jobs, or businesses leaving this country to set up in another country. That's one way a trade deficit may be created, but not the only way. A trade deficit means only that the stuff we're buying from other countries costs more than the stuff we're selling to other countries, insofar as dollars are a good measure of value, that means that over time, we have more valuable stuff and fewer dollars. For a trade deficit to be sustainable, you need more dollars. There are two ways to get more dollars, you can borrow them, which nets negative once interest is accounted for, or you can print them. Demand-side deflation occurs when the growth in the stock of real resources exceeds the growth in the stock of money. Since the dollars that we bought our foreign goods with has left the national economy, and since there are now more valuable goods in the national economy, there must be a replenishment of the stock of money.
ryggesogn2
2.8 / 5 (5) Apr 19, 2011
Ryggesogn2, TARP was passed by the Bush administration. Please stop your dishonesty. It is very transparent.

So?
Obama's deficits are trillions and counting.
"President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion."
"President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obamas budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016."
http://blog.herit.../?p=4210
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (3) Apr 20, 2011
A trade deficit means only that the stuff we're buying from other countries costs more than the stuff we're selling to other countries
No, that just means we're buying MORE stuff (which, per unit, costs less than the stuff we're exporting -- or the stuff that we could produce natively.) We buy more than we sell. IOW, we spend more than we earn.
A trade deficit means only that the stuff we're buying from other countries costs more than the stuff we're selling to other countries
Only half-correct: we have fewer dollars. Most of the stuff we tend to buy falls apart within weeks to months: it's not durable.
you can borrow them, which nets negative once interest is accounted for, or you can print them
You can't print them, because every single dollar is BORROWED -- not printed -- into existence (there's a reason it says "Federal Reserve NOTE" on each dollar bill.)
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (2) Apr 20, 2011
Since the dollars that we bought our foreign goods with has left the national economy
It has not. It comes right back in the form of U.S. government bond purchases: in other words, in return for more debt issuance by our nation. Another way it comes back, is in the form of land and property purchases by foreign investors (which is nothing but back-door asset-stripping of our nation.)
there must be a replenishment of the stock of money
Don't confuse money (currency) with wealth. There is a net outflow of wealth from U.S. due to free-trade policy, even as the amount of dollars in worldwide circulation continues to increase.
WirelessPhil
not rated yet Apr 20, 2011
"I'd like to see the US broken down by states." - Askantik

The U.S. is already broken down. By states or nationally.

As to the survey, it shows nicely how Americans prefer grubbing for money over caring for their family. Hence the failure of the American Family and because of an adequate level of socialization, the resulting culture of inferiority, violence and stupidity that is found in the U.S.

I find it amusing that the nation whose people spend the most time grubbing for every dime they can get, is now broke beyond imagination due to 30 years of Borrow and Spend Republican Treason.


This is funny! Look below at the address and who wrote this study.

Ruut Veenhoven is director of the World Database of Happiness and founding editor of the Journal of Happiness Studies.
Postal address: Erasmus University Rotterdam, Dpt of Social Sciences, POB 1738, NL3000DR Rotterdam Netherlands Tel +31 10 4082102, Fax +31 10 4089098
http://www2.eur.n...enhoven/
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2011
"Like the 2 trillion recently borrowed and spent by the Obama, Reid and Pelosi, NOT republicans." - RepubliTard

You mean that 2 trillion that kept your sorry fat ass out of a full blown Republican Created Depression.

You should be on your knees before Pelosi, begging her forgiveness.
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2011
"What is THE 'American' culture? " - ConservaTard

By all accounts, it seems to be gluttony, ignorance, failure, ,fiscal insolvancy, mass murder, all wrapped in money and gun grubbing.

Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2011
"This is funny! Look below at the address and who wrote this study." - AmeriTard

Why does this research from a superior nation make you laugh?

Clearly it is the laughter of American ignorance.
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2011
"Obama's deficits are trillions and counting." - RepubliTard

All spent to keep the American State from falling into another Republican Created Depression.

"We need to manufacture an (economic) crisis in order to assure that there are no alternatives to a smaller government." - Bush - Imprimus magazine 1995

Pushing the U.S. economy into a near depression has long been the Republican goal.

"Starve the Beast" - Republican Motto.
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2011
"President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008." - Republican Liar.

That was in his second term.

In his first term, War Criminal Bush added another 1.7 trillion to the U.S. national debt.

This totals 4 trillion, and that doesn't reflect the fact that he inherited a 100 billion a year surplus from Clinton, or the fact that Obama's first year budget was dictated by the fiscal collapse that Occurred in 2008 due to the economic mismanagement of Bush and his treasonous Republican buddies.

Bush added close to 5 trillion to the U.S. national debt, including the 4 trillion that his war crimes in the Middle East are going to cost America.
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2011
Free trade is the panacea sold to the American public by Conservative Libertarians and their Neo-Conservative sycophants.

The arguments made in favor of free trade included the claim that Americans were intellectually superior than their second world counterparts and could be counted on to dominate the infomation sector.

Tards, leading the Tards to a slaughter.

"No. Real resources result from PRODUCTION. We are currently spending previously-accumulated wealth, by purchasing outputs of foreign production. With this, we are stimulating economic growth in foreign nations (which are exporting to us), while at the same time destroying our own economy in the process." - Pink Elephant
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2011
One can not be a champion of science and reason, and at the same time tolerant of the non stop stream of lies that come from Conservatives.

As a scientist. I reject Liars. Hence I expose Republicans for the perpetually lying scum that they are.

"I find it amusing that you have a chip on your shoulder about AGW and Republicans, and an internet history via quick google search showing you have more of an interest in politics and hating America than in science." - American Boy
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (2) Apr 22, 2011
2 trillion that kept your sorry fat ass out of a full blown Republican Created Depression
More than 2 trillion. This year alone (2011), the budget projection gives a $1.5 Trillion deficit. Isn't it impressive that -- after much debate and acrimony -- our CONgress managed to triumphantly slice a whole enormous less than 5% off that? At that rate, Obama (and his team of elite Wall Street graduates) will spend us into bankruptcy much faster than Bush ever dreamed of.

As for avoiding the Depression, we've done no such thing. With every additional $Trillion, we only dig our collective financial grave deeper, and when we are finally FORCED into fiscal discipline by the global markets, we will only suffer more pain because of it.

Obama promised a lot, but has done less than nothing. He has proven himself to be the savior and lackey of Wall Street. He serves their interests (and the interests of China, Saudi Arabia, and Israel), not the interests of America.
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (2) Apr 22, 2011
he inherited a 100 billion a year surplus from Clinton
That was a fraud and a lie. Clinton achieved his "surpluses" by stealing from Social Security and Medicare. And, to a large extent his deficit reductions were due to exaggerated tax revenue due to the tech/internet bubble of the 1990's -- which both Clinton and Greenspan cheer-led rather than cutting off at its root before it did all that damage.

Clinton blew the Internet bubble; Bush Jr. blew the housing bubble; looks like Obama is blowing a commodities bubble. Same shit, different day.
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (2) Apr 22, 2011
If Obama really truly was all about transparency and ACCOUNTABILITY, and draining the swamp -- which is what he ran on, and why I personally supported him -- our prisons right now would be overflowing with white-collar criminals who robbed and pillaged through mortgage fraud, securitization fraud, illegal insider trading, balance sheet fraud, and other high financial crimes. Many of these people stole and destroyed SO MUCH wealth -- doing SO MUCH damage in the process -- that they deserve to serve multiple life sentences with no possibility of parole. Instead, they all find themselves nicely bailed out, and once again flying high at the top of the world. There has been nearly NO accountability, and as a result the financial elite now running our country and setting our agenda is CONFIRMED to be CRIMINAL and CORRUPT to its core. And anyone who thinks they've learned their lessons and won't do it again, is a naive rube who deserves to be raped by them again, and again, and again.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 22, 2011
"As for avoiding the Depression, we've done no such thing." - Pink Retard

Which of course is a lie since it is self evident that the U.S. economy isn't in a depression and is in fact growing.

"With every additional $Trillion, we only dig our collective financial grave deeper." - Pink Retard

That is the "Starve the Beast" Republican plan. Bankrupt the state in order to force the state to reduce social services.

Some dare call it REPUBLICAN Treason.

So long.. Suckers....

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 22, 2011
"If Obama really truly was all about transparency and ACCOUNTABILITY, and draining the swamp -- which is what he ran on, and why I personally supported him -- our prisons right now would be overflowing with white-collar criminals who robbed and pillaged through mortgage fraud, securitization fraud, illegal insider trading, balance sheet fraud, and other high financial crimes." - Pink Retard

Really? What crimes were committed? Where is your evidence? And if you have any why not just start a class action lawsuit against the criminals?

The reason of course is that you don't have any actionalble evidence of criminality.

Your failure to act is a tacit admittance that the failed American State under Republican rule has devolved into a Plutocratic Kleptocracy.

Well... You losers got what you voted for.
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2011
"This year alone (2011), the budget projection gives a $1.5 Trillion deficit. Isn't it impressive that -- after much debate and acrimony -- our CONgress managed to triumphantly slice a whole enormous less than 5% off that?" - Pink Retard

Hmmm Lets see.... 1.5 trillion/30,000 = 50 million

50 million is the number of jobs that that 1.5 trillion represents.

Cutting 1.5 trillion from the U.S. economy immediately would immediately increase the U.S. unemployment rate by an additional 17%.

And that is presuming that there is no multiplier effect. Which there is.

Yet this is exactly what the TeaPublicans demand.

The T-Tards demand an immediate increase in the U.S. unemployment rate from 8% to 25%, and at the same time a reduction to zero of any government income support for the unemployed. With the multiplier effect the real unemployment rate would under such a plan, rise to around 40%.

So in effect the Republican T-Tards are demanding that the U.S. enter into a deep depression.
Vendicar_Decarian
2 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2011
"There has been nearly NO accountability, and as a result the financial elite now running our country and setting our agenda is CONFIRMED to be CRIMINAL and CORRUPT to its core." - Pink Retard

Gee. Gosh.. Yoozers are just waking up to this?

Wallstreet has always been corrupt. Everyone on earth has always known that except dumb as dirt Americans who are just now beginning to clue into the fact that they have been sold into wage slavery by the Borrow and Spend Republicans they elected.

You are getting just what you deserve.
PinkElephant
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 23, 2011
Which of course is a lie since it is self evident that the U.S. economy isn't in a depression and is in fact growing.
Which of course is a lie. The "growth" reported by government statistics reflects only the increased amount of increasingly worthless dollars in circulation. If it were assessed in constant-dollars, the economy is still contracting. And real unemployment is still rising, as opposed to the government's cooked statistics.
Some dare call it REPUBLICAN Treason.
So what is YOUR justification for supporting deficit spending when our outstanding financial obligations (including debt and unfunded mandates) are already at ~5x our GDP?
What crimes were committed? Where is your evidence?
You can't be serious. You can't be THAT ignorant.
American State under Republican rule has devolved into a Plutocratic Kleptocracy.
Just as it had done under Clinton's DNC rule. They are just two sides of the same corrupt coin.
PinkElephant
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 23, 2011
50 million is the number of jobs that that 1.5 trillion represents.
Let's not forget that a big chunk of that 1.5 Trillion has gone to beef up reserves at bankrupt mega-banks.
Cutting 1.5 trillion from the U.S. economy immediately would immediately increase the U.S. unemployment rate
That's right. Which is exactly what I mean when I say that we didn't escape the Depression. We can't run 1+ Trillion deficits per year in perpetuity. Yet, the longer we continue to run them, running up our collective debt, the more thoroughly bankrupt we become and the greater the pain will be when we are finally forced to live within our means.
that is presuming that there is no multiplier effect. Which there is
The M1 multiplier is actually less than one as of this year. Which means $1 deficit-spent now produces less than $1 increase in circulating money. Yes, we've finally crossed that Rubicon. Rejoice!
PinkElephant
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 23, 2011
So in effect the Republican T-Tards are demanding that the U.S. enter into a deep depression.
We ARE in a deep Depression, so you'd better watch who you call a Tard. And the longer we defer the pain of it, the deeper the Depression is getting. We are in a debt spiral. No debt spiral has ever resulted in improved or even the same outcome, the longer it was allowed to go on. The longer it continues, the more damage there will be in the end.

Yes, we are going to have to deal with high unemployment. And we are going to have to deal with massive deflation -- because just about every asset in this country is now massively inflated due to multiple years of ineffectual bubble-blowing government "stimulus" spending.

The real problem continues to be loss of jobs due to environmental and wage arbitrage enabled by "free trade" policies. No amount of government stimulus is going to reverse this dynamic. And debt spending is NOT stimulus, in any case. It's the beginning of the end.
rynox
5 / 5 (1) Apr 23, 2011
For all you youngsters, let me give you two very important life lessons you probably haven't learned. These could be the most important things you ever hear, so listen up:

1. It's not about you.

2. Money or things have never made anyone happy. Ever. Happy people are happy and miserable people are miserable. The reason is because happiness comes from within.
rynox
not rated yet Apr 23, 2011
And Pink Elephant, that was the most non-sensical rant I've ever heard. We are not in a depression we just went through a recession. (Geez, a country doesn't go through a recession for a few years and all of a sudden everyone forgets what it is like)

There will be no deflation. We will soon see the effects of double digit inflation. The Fed cooked up this steep inflation with the estimation that the positives of inflation will outweigh the negatives.

"The real problem continues to be loss of jobs due to environmental and wage arbitrage enabled by "free trade" policies."

Actually, a loose monetary policy and inflation will probably lead to more jobs. See the Phillips Curve.

It is this basic lack of understanding of economic principles that bother me whenever a conservative sets economic policy.
Question
not rated yet Apr 23, 2011
Rynox:
The loose monetary policy will lead to more jobs, well at least keep us from loosing a lot more. It is the large Federal deficits and loose monetary policy for most of the last 3 decades that have postponed a depression which is the end result of decades of free trade deficits.
The mother of our Federal deficits is our trade deficits.
What the US needs is a Balanced Trade Policy. And it better happen soon or we will be the next Argentina.
PinkElephant
not rated yet Apr 23, 2011
We are not in a depression we just went through a recession
When was the last time REAL household wealth increased? Not in the last 10 years. When was the last time REAL economy grew faster than national debt? Not in the last 15 years, at least. When was the last time national debt exceeded 100% of GDP? When was the last time real estate transactions plunged 80% or more? Not since the Great Depression 1.0. When was the last time REAL unemployment approached 20%? How many "jobless recoveries" must you see before you wake up?
There will be no deflation. We will soon see the effects of double digit inflation.
There will be deflation, inevitably. At least, when measured in CONSTANT dollars. Sure, prices will go up as the dollar devalues. But prices of assets relative to median wage will fall -- because most if not all assets are still horrendously inflated at this time.
See the Phillips Curve
No longer applies when M1 < 1.0
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (2) Apr 23, 2011
It is this basic lack of understanding of economic principles that bother me
Here's the basic understanding of economic principles that you need to drill through your thick skull: on average, a worker in China earns 20x less than a worker in U.S. Additionally, China doesn't enforce the same level of environmental regulations we do: they have no problem poisoning their rivers and land and people. Under such a setup, without any tariffs to balance out the playing field, America will continue to lose high-wage jobs to the developing world (who, by the way, are also graduating many more engineers and scientists, and also manipulating their currency to undercut our economy). The only jobs we are about to be left with, are burger-flipper positions at fast food restaurants. Oh, and EVENTUALLY, once the median wage in U.S. drops sufficiently to become comparable to that in the third world, foreign corporations will begin to set up plants here, and employ Americans in sweatshops.
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 23, 2011
The Fed cooked up this steep inflation with the estimation that the positives of inflation will outweigh the negatives.
The Fed is trying to save the hides of mega-bankers who massively over-leveraged and bankrupted themselves. The "negatives" they're trying to counteract, relate primarily to the Captains of Wall Street, not to little shrimp like you or me.
a loose monetary policy and inflation will probably lead to more jobs
Just like it did in Zimbabwe, Russia, and the Weimar Republic... Incidentally, it is the latter that scares me the most (and should scare you, as well.)
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"The "growth" reported by government statistics reflects only the increased amount of increasingly worthless dollars in circulation. If it were assessed in constant-dollars, the economy is still contracting." = Pink Retard

You need to stop listening to Lying Conservatives.

Bureau of Economic Analysis
National Economic Accounts
http://www.bea.go...ease.htm

Gross national product

Real gross national product -- the goods and services produced by the labor and property
supplied by U.S. residents -- increased 2.8 percent in the fourth quarter...

Current-dollar GDP -- the market value of the nation's output of goods and services -- increased
3.5 percent, or $126.3 billion, in the fourth quarter to a level of $14,871.4 billion. In the third quarter,
current-dollar GDP increased 4.6 percent, or $166.4 billion.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"And real unemployment is still rising, as opposed to the government's cooked statistics." - Pink Tard

Trading Economics
United States Unemployment Rate
http://www.tradin...ent-rate

Peak U.S. Unemployment Dec 2009 10.1%
Current U.S. Unemployment 8.8%
Last month 8.9%
The month before 9.0%

You really need to stop listening to Republican Liars.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"The Fed is trying to save the hides of mega-bankers who massively over-leveraged and bankrupted themselves." - Pink Retard

No. The FED is continuing to work to stabilize the U.S. and Global Economy which was pushed to the brink of a Depression by the spectacular Economic Mismanagement of the Borrow and Spend Republican Party who's deregulation of the banking industry caused the current fiscal crisis.
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
And how much does 1 U.S. dollar buy in 2011 vs. 2010? Has the dollar lost less than 5% of its value over the last year? Food, fuel, all raw commodities are up anywhere from 10 to 50% -- with all other prices to follow shortly (because profit margins of business can't stay negative for long). About the only asset dropping in price (and not by much) is the still bubble-high real estate. Yet none of those key inputs to the economy are included in the fraudulent Federal inflation numbers. Total GDP figures mean NOTHING when the purchasing power of the dollar they're measured in is being devalued by faster than the economy "grows".

In the meantime:

"Chinese Rating Agency Says U.S. As Creditworthy As COSTCO, Pegs U.S. GDP At $5 Trillion (NOT $14T), And Downgrades Bernanke"

http://dailybail....egs.html

Uh, aren't they our biggest creditors? Uh-oh...
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"Additionally, China doesn't enforce the same level of environmental regulations we do: they have no problem poisoning their rivers and land and people. Under such a setup, without any tariffs to balance out the playing field, " - Pink Retard

All through the 80's while free trade was being promoted by Neo-conservatives and Corporate Propaganda Libertarian Stink Tanks, the claim was that America would greatly benefit from unregulated, and unrestricted trade with low wage nations because they would supply Americans with lower priced goods.

The claim was that there would not be a race to the bottom in terms of product quality, or American Wages.

The claim was made that the U.S. would transition into a high tech knowledge based economy based on the superior intellect of the American people and the inferior intellect of the people of the developing nations.

PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
You really need to stop listening to Republican Liars.
And you need to stop listening to the lies of the Federal Government. Those unemployment numbers do not count the so-called "discouraged", nor do they include the so-called under-employed. Back during Great Depression 1.0, both of the above were included in unemployment statistics, but not today. If unemployment were calculated via the same methods as back in the 1930's, it comes out to somewhere above 20% right now. This is partially reflected in the U6 numbers (which still don't include the "discouraged"), but they are rarely publicized because they'd cause rubes like you to get all pissy:

http://portalseve...e_u6.jsp
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
The claim was made that with free trade, corporations would not off shore their businesses and remove jobs from the U.S. because Americans were the most productive workers on earth.

It was also stated outright by many of the Conservatives promoting the free trade agenda that to question any of the above statements was anti-american and a form of mild treason.

All those Republican/Neo-Conservative claims were lies, were't they?

PinkElephant
not rated yet Apr 24, 2011
The FED is continuing to work to stabilize the U.S. and Global Economy which was pushed to the brink of a Depression by the spectacular Economic Mismanagement of the Borrow and Spend Republican Party
Idiot. How do you think devaluation of the currency and escalation of national debt serves to stabilize anything? And if you recall, it was THE FED that dropped its interest rates to near-0 back circa 2000, and has kept them there ever since. You call this stabilization? It was THE FED's job to audit and regulate the out-of-control financial industry, and it was THE FED's job to catch and stop the real estate bubble. How did it do?
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
All through the 80's while free trade was being promoted by Neo-conservatives and Corporate Propaganda Libertarian Stink Tanks
And you defend it? Which are you, a neo-con or a "stink tank" employee?
The claim was that there would not be a race to the bottom in terms of product quality, or American Wages. ... All those Republican/Neo-Conservative claims were lies, were't they?
Obviously lies. So your point is? Where was the DNC with respect to this? Where was Clinton? (What was NAFTA all about? What about that "engagement" with China?) You want to pin it all on the eeevil Republicans, but Democrats are equally culpable. They are all sellouts to Wall Street. So again, what is your point, you pinheaded partisan hack?
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"Oh, and EVENTUALLY, once the median wage in U.S. drops sufficiently to become comparable to that in the third world, foreign corporations will begin to set up plants here, and employ Americans in sweatshops." - Pink Tard

Average U.S. Household income.

http://upload.wik....svg.png

Showing that Average U.S. income over the last 40 years has grown the most for the wealthiest individuals.

The greater your worth, the more your growth in income has been over the last 40 years.

Income for the wealthiest 5% of Americans has doubled.
Income for the bottom 5% hasn't changed.

Income for all parties have declined markedly during the Bush Administration.

That has been the Republican plan for the last 40 years.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (2) Apr 24, 2011
"It is this basic lack of understanding of economic principles that bother me whenever a conservative sets economic policy." - Rynox

Conservatives only believe those economic principles that support their corrupt political ideology, just as they only accept science that does the same.

Uncle Sam has died from brain cancer, otherwise known as Republican disease.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"And if you recall, it was THE FED that dropped its interest rates to near-0 back circa 2000." - Pink Tard

Ya, they did that back during Bush Near Depression #1 in order to get the U.S. economy running again.

The failure of the FED during the housing bubble was a result of the Libertarian/Randite ideology of the Alan Greenspan who on multiple occasions stated publicly that the banking industry could be trusted to work against it's own self interest, because free market principles prevented such acts.

After the collapse of the banking industry that his Libertarian/Randite ideology produced, he retracted his words.

Yet the Quack Tard Free Market Libertarian/Randite ideology persists in the Republican party, despite being repeatedly proven to be a spectacular failure based on QuackTard Lunacy.

PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
Income for the wealthiest 5% of Americans has doubled.
Income for the bottom 5% hasn't changed.
Now look up a chart for National Debt, and another chart for Household Debt. That'll open up your eyes with respect to the real fiscal picture. Here, I'll help you out:

http://www.bearma...lization

http://market-tic...=2454726

Oh, and while you're celebrating our "recovery", ponder whether our economy -- as ridiculously distorted and unbalanced as it is -- has actually added jobs at a sufficient pace to keep up with growing population at ANY time since 2000:

http://market-tic...t=181533
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
the Libertarian/Randite ideology of the Alan Greenspan
And you think Bernanke is any different? You think Geithner is any different? What about Larry Summers? ROFLMAO
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"And you think Bernanke is any different?" - Pink Tard

You know... I really couldn't care less...

Their ideology doesn't alter the numerous misstatements of fact that you have made here.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"Here, I'll help you out:" - Pink Retard

By posting a link to a Quack Tard Blog?

Ahahahahahahahahah......

"Oh, and while you're celebrating our "recovery", ponder whether our economy" - Pink Retard

Let me make it clear to you. The faster America Dies the better.

I will dance on the burning embers of your cities.

But having said that, I am morally bound to speak the truth, and illustrate your quack tard stream of anti-facts.

PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
Their ideology doesn't alter the numerous misstatements of fact that you have made here.
These people were put in power and re-confirmed by Obama. You care about him, dontcha?
You know... I really couldn't care less...
That's right: speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil. But guess what: playing "ostrich" doesn't make evil disappear.

But you're worse than that. You're actually cheer-leading for one of the two major factions of evil in this country (the national Democratic Party.) You're worse than ignorant and indifferent: you're actually COMPLICIT.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"Now look up a chart for National Debt, and another chart for Household Debt." - Pink Retard

Yawn. The fact that Americans have decided to borrow themselves into the grave is a fine indication of American numerical illiteracy.

Why you think this has anything to do with the growth of U.S. household income is worth laughing at, but not pondering, as it is not in any way relevant.

PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
By posting a link to a Quack Tard Blog?
That "Quack Tard Blog" is using numbers published by the Federal Government, and you're free to double-check them for yourself (I have.) You won't hear these numbers discussed on the boob tube, however, which explains why you haven't been aware of them.
Why you think this has anything to do with the growth of U.S. household income
It has everything to do with whether the actual economy is healthy or not. When so-called "growth" is in fact fueled by escalating debt, it's not real growth. The GDP numbers in isolation do not reflect this basic and obvious state of affairs.
Ahahahahahahahahah......
You're a hack, and idiot in the classic (Greek) sense of the word. Any further discussion with you is apparently pointless, since I'm evidently talking to a sock puppet.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (2) Apr 24, 2011
"These people were put in power and re-confirmed by Obama. You care about him, dontcha?" - Pink Retard

Nope. Do you think that not caring justifies your stream of quack T-Tard nonsense?

"You're actually cheer-leading for one of the two major factions of evil in this country (the national Democratic Party.)" - Pink Tard

Odd how telling the truth supports the National Democratic party.

PinkElephant
not rated yet Apr 24, 2011
Odd how telling the truth supports the National Democratic party.
Telling half-truths and blaming everything only and exclusively on Republicans supports only the conclusion that you're a partisan Idiot.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (2) Apr 24, 2011
"It has everything to do with whether the actual economy is healthy or not. When so-called "growth" is in fact fueled by escalating debt, it's not real growth." - Pink Tard

U.S. economy healthy? Ahahahaha.. Straw man. No one claimed that.

The U.S. economy is in deep dodo. In fact I anticipate that your nation will not exist in 10 to 15 years.

However, in the short term, Fat Americans can continue to eat pancakes at Denny's, paid for with largely borrowed money.

"We need to manufacture an 'economic' crisis in order to assure that there is no alternative to a smaller government." - Bush - Imprimus Magazine 1995

"Starve the beast." - Republican Motto
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
"Telling half-truths and blaming everything only and exclusively on Republicans" - Pink Tard

I have been watching the Borrow and Spend Republican party destroy the American State for the last 40 years. Sure there has been missteps by the Democrats. But the Cancer is 100% Repubican.

"Borrowing a trillion dollars plus was the greatest thing we ever did." - Reagan economic advisor.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (2) Apr 24, 2011
"You're a hack, and idiot in the classic (Greek) sense of the word. Any further discussion with you is apparently pointless, since I'm evidently talking to a sock puppet." - Pink Tard

So long Tard Boy. Enjoy your non-existent economic depression.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
Regarding Pink Tard's second link. Specifically the graphic.

I read...

"This chart shows the annualized (that is, seasonality removed) change in employment adjusted for population change."

If the y axis is a change in employment (delta e) and the x axis is the time, then we have a meaningless graphic.

Either (delta e) refers to a fixed point of employment, or the change in undefined.

If it is a fixed point then the area under the graph reflects the total number of unemployed added over the last decade, and that total sums to approximately 100 million.

So by Pink-Tards chart, the entire U.S. population is unemployed.

I for one, don't trust economist wanna-be's who can't understand or plot simple graphs.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (2) Apr 24, 2011
"When so-called "growth" is in fact fueled by escalating debt, it's not real growth." - Pink Tard

I sympathize with your position. Yet such spending does expand the GDP. As does the act of replacing broken windows, or wasting non-renewable resoureces.

Economics is chocked full of such Frauds.

PinkElephant
not rated yet Apr 24, 2011
the area under the graph reflects the total number of unemployed added over the last decade, and that total sums to approximately 100 million ... I for one, don't trust economist wanna-be's who can't understand or plot simple graphs.
Apparently, aside from being a partisan Idiot, you also don't know how to read simple graphs. The 0-level on the y axis is at the top of the chart, and the area "under the curve" is actually the area above the curve (since most of the curve is in the negative-y subspace.)
Skeptic_Heretic
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
We are not in a depression we just went through a recession. (Geez, a country doesn't go through a recession for a few years and all of a sudden everyone forgets what it is like)

A depression is a long term recession. The great depression lasted for about 15 years. We've been in a recession since 2001. That's 10 years, it most certainly is a depression.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (4) Apr 24, 2011
"We've been in a recession since 2001." - Septic Tard

According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the last recession ran from Dec 2008 to June 2009.

Bush's first recession started March 2001 and ended on Nov 2001.

Now YOU might still be in a depression. But that is only because - according to my Republican "Friends" - you don't have the skills it takes to find employment, or start your own business.

Vendicar_Decarian
1.3 / 5 (4) Apr 24, 2011
"The 0-level on the y axis is at the top of the chart, and the area "under the curve" is actually the area above the curve (since most of the curve is in the negative-y subspace.)" - Pink Tard

A natural consequence of the process of integration.

That you feel a need to mention it, is evidence of your lack of education.

Summing the area comes out to somewhere around 100 million lost jobs over the last decade - roughly equal to the entire U.S. labor force, meaning that the U.S. employment rate - according to your Tard Chart is ZERO.

Explain that for us will you Tard Boy.

PinkElephant
5 / 5 (2) Apr 24, 2011
Summing the area comes out to somewhere around 100 million lost jobs over the last decade
It does not. Not even close.

This is what it comes down to:

http://en.wikiped...2011.svg

About 3% of the population, or roughly 10,000,000 jobs steadily lost since 2000 (and still going down rapidly.)
Explain that for us will you Tard Boy.
Explain what? Your perpetual state of belligerent idiocy? I'm afraid only you can explain that...
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (2) Apr 24, 2011
BTW, the above figure (10 million job deficit since the peak of the market), does not differentiate between full- vs. part-time employment for those who want full-time jobs. Underemployment has doubled since 2000.
Skeptic_Heretic
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the last recession ran from Dec 2008 to June 2009.

Bush's first recession started March 2001 and ended on Nov 2001.

Now YOU might still be in a depression. But that is only because - according to my Republican "Friends" - you don't have the skills it takes to find employment, or start your own business.
Have one, thanks.

jackass, do you realize that when you flail wildly in the dark that you serve to destroy your own point of view's ability to appear realistic?
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (4) Apr 24, 2011
"Have one, thanks." - Skeptic

So the U.S. national economy has been out of a recession for more than a year, and even you are gainfully employed.

So we can conclude that your claim that the U.S. has been in a non stop recession since 2001 was just a lie on your part then.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 24, 2011
Summing the area comes out to somewhere around 100 million lost jobs over the last decade

"It does not. Not even close." - Pink Elephant

And yet that exactly what your Tard Chart integrates to.

You can integrate can't you?

So integrate over your Tard Chart and tell us how far it differs from the 100 million unemployed that it shows.

Come on boy. Use your fingers if you have to. It's not that difficult.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (5) Apr 24, 2011
"This is what it comes down to:" - Pink Tard

Odd that your first graphic looks like your second.

Your first shows a decline in U.S. employment of 100 million people over the last 10 years.

Your second shows a 2.5% decline in workforce participation over the last 10 years.

That 2.5% represents... about 4 million unemployed Americans.

So which is it Pink Tard? at least 100 million additional unemployed Americans according to your tard chart? or an increase of 4 million Americans over the last 10 years?

Given that the U.S. unemployment rate is currently around 8.5% and up from the 6% it held before the start of Bush Recession #2. a 2.5% decline. I am much more likely to believe the 2.5% decine in the labour force participation rate shown by your second chart.

Now Tard Boy. Tell us why you sought fit to use the ignorance displayed in your first Tard Chart?

Skeptic_Heretic
5 / 5 (1) Apr 24, 2011
"Have one, thanks." - Skeptic

So the U.S. national economy has been out of a recession for more than a year, and even you are gainfully employed.

So we can conclude that your claim that the U.S. has been in a non stop recession since 2001 was just a lie on your part then.


Does today equal yesterday? In your reality it does, and it appears to equal each day that you perceive to be positive or negative in your particular sphere of reality.

Your rage is misplaced, which makes it appear foolish, regardless of the fact that from time to time you make good points.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 25, 2011
"We've been in a recession since 2001. That's 10 years, it most certainly is a depression." - Skeptic Heritic

And once your foolish deceit is exposed... Your response...

"Does today equal yesterday? In your reality it does..." - Skeptic Heritic

Is that the best you can do Tard Boy?

According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the last recession ran from Dec 2008 to June 2009.

Bush's first recession started March 2001 and ended on Nov 2001.
kimberlykelly
not rated yet Apr 25, 2011
There are a lot of fundamental, cultural and historical, differences between East and West.
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 25, 2011
You can integrate can't you?
I'm pretty sure I can. The real question is, can you?
So integrate over your Tard Chart and tell us how far it differs from the 100 million unemployed that it shows.
Let's note that the y axis represents yearly rates of change. Let's further note that x axis represents years, and spans 10 of them. In order to obtain a total area under the curve of 100 million, the curve -- on average -- would have to be at about the -10,000,000 level (which would be, for the arithmetically challenged, the result of dividing 100,000,000 by 10.)

Now, why don't you dust off your eyeballs and screw them into their sockets, and take another look at the chart:

http://market-tic...ynr=1249

Does it look to you like a curve that hangs around the -10,000 level on the y-axis? Does it EVER even reach -10,000? What's your expert assessment, genius?
PinkElephant
5 / 5 (1) Apr 25, 2011
Now, I don't have the data behind the graph handy, but just by eyballing it I can guesstimate that the average value for the curve over the span of the 11 years (sorry, it's 11 not 10 like I said in the previous post, though that doesn't alter the preceding post's point) -- anyway, the average value is about -2500 or so. Which over 11 years would yield approximately 28 million net. Which sounds about right.

Between 2000 and now, population in US went up by about 29 million. Whereas total US workforce went up by only 5 million. That gives a net 24 million non-working people. Now it stands to reason that some of the newly added population is too young to work, so on the whole the figures pencil out.

For the above, I got the workforce/population figures here:

http://www.usdebt...dex.html

(use the "time machine" feature, in the upper-right corner, to get figures for the year 2000)
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 26, 2011
"Let's note that the y axis represents yearly rates of change." - Tard Boy

The horizontal axis is labeled every quarter. Hence it is a quarterly rate of change.

The vertical axis is marked in thousands, so 1000 = 1 million.

I estimate that over the 10 year period the average shown on the Tard Chart is -2500 = - 2.5 million. A value that integrates to 75 million over the period shown in the chart.

Now lets look at the content of your Tard Chart.

http://data.bls.g...rveymost -Employment level Seas Adj

From Jan 2005 to March 2005 the employment level changes from 140,245,000 to 141,254,000 an increase of of 1,009,000 Yet your Tard Chart shows ZERO change.

This could only be the case if the U.S. population grew by 2 million people over that quarter.

Yet in 2005 the U.S. census shows the U.S. population at
294,473,116 at the start of the quarter, and 295,269,221 at the end for a difference of 796,105, representing a required labour force increase of only 400,000.
Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 26, 2011
So your Tard chart shows a no change in it's empoloyment index for that quarter but in fact there was an increase of 600,000 jobs.

And that Little Boy, is why your TARD Chart is a TARD Chart.

Vendicar_Decarian
1 / 5 (3) Apr 26, 2011
"Between 2000 and now, population in US went up by about 29 million. Whereas total US workforce went up by only 5 million." - Tard Boy

April 1 2000 - Resident Population - 281,424,602
Dec 1 2010-= "" - 310,823,152
Increase 29 million

April 1, 2000 - Employment level - 137778
Dec 1, 2010 - "" - 139206
Increase = 1.4 million

Unemployment deficit = 12.6 million = approx 9%

Your Tard Chart implies an unemployment rate of 59%.

Current Unemployment rate 9%