US doctors urge reversal of gay blood ban

A leading US doctors' group this week urged the reversal of a decades-old ban on donations of blood from gay men, saying the law is discriminatory and outdated.

The policy decision came Tuesday in Chicago at the annual meeting of the American Medical Association, a professional grouping of more than 800,000 doctors.

"The lifetime on blood donation for men who have sex with men is discriminatory and not based on sound science," said AMA Board member William Kobler.

"This new policy urges a federal policy change to ensure blood donation bans or deferrals are applied to donors according to their individual level of risk and are not based on sexual orientation alone."

The US ban was implemented in 1983 in response to the AIDS outbreak, and prohibits blood donation from any man who has had sex with another man at any point since 1977.

"It is long past time we reformed our blood donation policy affecting gay men," said Chris Collins, director of public policy at The Foundation for AIDS Research, branding the ban a "a non-evidence-based, stigmatizing law."

The call for a change to the 's policy is a stance shared by the American Red Cross, America's Blood Centers and the AABB, an international association of professionals in .

Those groups in 2010 urged the FDA to change its lifetime ban to a 12-month deferral for , like that which exists for other high-risk groups, meaning men should wait 12 months to donate blood after having sex with another man.

Current US standards require a 12-month waiting period before blood donations from people who have had sex with someone with HIV or .

Screening tests usually detect HIV within nine days and in about seven days, the Red Cross said.

The Health and Human Service's Advisory Committee on Blood Safety and Availability held a meeting on the matter in 2010. Concerns were expressed about the need for more research on preventing risks to the blood supply.

The FDA says on its web site it is still examining research and will consider a change if new approaches to donor screening and testing "can assure that blood recipients are not placed at an increased risk of HIV or other transfusion transmitted diseases."

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freethinking
2 / 5 (4) Jun 21, 2013
Perverted Homosexual activists once again putting peoples lives at risk to promote the Homosexual lifestyle. If anyone wonders why Homosexuals are dangerous to donate blood, the link below explains it.

http://www.americ...tm#_edn6
daggoth
3 / 5 (2) Jun 21, 2013
And your name is freethinking...hah.
freethinking
1 / 5 (2) Jun 24, 2013
daggoth, is your name is perversion over safety? How about lies over safety?

It's interesting that progressives will ban almost anything IF IT COULD just save ONE life.

What Hypocrites you are. Allowing a population that participates in the most unhealthy lifestyle to donate blood, just to make them feel included, is hypocritical.
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
Just some snip its of the Homosexual lifestyle.
43% of white male homosexuals estimated they had sex with 500 or more different partners. 75% had 100 or more. 28% (the largest subcategory) reported more than 1000 partners.79% said more than half their partners were strangers.70% said more than half their sexual partners were men with whom they had sex only once. Homosexuals average somewhere between 20 and 106 different partners per year.
The CDC reported that homosexual men (including bisexuals) are still 50 times more likely to have the HIV virus than heterosexuals.
On the average, in one year, a typical homosexual will: fellated 106 different men, and swallowed fifty of their seminal discharges; experienced seventy-two penile penetrations of the anus; and ingested the fecal material of twenty-three different men.

Yup, sounds smart to get untainted blood from them.....
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
Religionist morality is Designed to maximize the growth of the congregation by deeming any sort of non-procreative sexual activity EVIL in the extreme. This includes onanism and pornography, homosexuality, oral and anal sex, and celibacy.

It regards single women over 18 as old maids and single men as suspected perverts. Religions traditionally encourage marriage as young as possible ('children of our youth, quiverfull, bar and bat mitzvah), and restrict women to making and raising babies. And of course they consider contraception and ABORTION evil as well.

The REASON for all these postures is to outgrow and overrun their opponents, and this is the one reason why they are so DANGEROUS to the world today.

Any kind of sexual activity is guaranteed to offend someone. But alternatives to procreative sex and conception are essential to reducing population growth. The continued existence of religion makes the promotion of any and all methods to reduce growth absolutely essential.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
"What Hypocrites you are. Allowing a population that participates in the most unhealthy lifestyle to donate blood, just to make them feel included, is hypocritical" -ft

Overpopulation threatens the health and wellbeing of billions and yet you religionists insist upon unrestricted growth. Doubting gods promise to provide for the faithful is a sin. God owns the future not you, right?

"19 And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus." phil4

-Unfortunately since your god never does provide (since he doesnt exist), it is up to believers to take what they need from those who are only trying to live within their means. You know, like socialists do.

Since your god has deemed heathens fair game like the philistines, this is ok.
freethinking
2 / 5 (4) Jun 24, 2013
Otto your rant on religion when I never mentioned it is a bit telling. This article is talking about blood bank safety. I mentioned that homosexuals should not be allowed to donate blood because of their unhealthy lifestyle. I would also be against a christian intravenous drug addict giving blood.

If you get joy eating feces, no skin of my nose. Just don't ask me if I think it is healthy or if you should donate blood, or if it should be promoted by government as healthy as my answer to all three is NO.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
"religion when I never mentioned it is a bit telling" -ft

-Religion is a MAJOR factor in the world today. Why are you surprised it has something to do with sexual mores?

"If you get joy eating feces"

-No YOU eat shit.

By the by, have you ever pondered the chance that gaydom serves a very valuable biological function? Many animals have innate biological ways of dealing with overpopulation. Rabbit does will absorb fetuses for instance rather than birthing them into overcrowded warrens.

Could homosexuality be a similar such response? Could it be an epigenetic response of mothers, of neutering their unborn children rather than birthing them into overcrowded tribes? The trigger could be the type and quantity of nutrition available.

Or perhaps the mother does not want to birth more competition for her first-born son whom she sees as more able to carry her genes to the next generation.

Cant you see how religion would only make this perception WORSE?

One more thing thats your fault.
freethinking
2 / 5 (4) Jun 24, 2013
Homosexuality has nothing to do with overpopulation, and Religion doesn't have much to do with Blood donation or the safety of the blood supply.

Also I never said you eat feces, I said IF you want to eat it, go ahead.

Progressives such as yourself don't care for homosexuals (or women or children for that matter), you just want to use them for your agenda.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
ft says
"Homosexuality has nothing to do with overpopulation"

and otto says
-How would you know?

"Progressives such as yourself"

-Im not a progressive.

"...don't care for homosexuals (or women or children for that matter), you just want to use them for your agenda"

-'Agenda.'
-'Agenda.'

My AGENDA is to figure out why and how things HAPPEN. YOUR agenda is your religion, and you really dont CARE why things happen.

Overcrowding will understandably cause all sorts of aberrant behaviors. It is UNDERSTANDABLE that humans would have been selected for behaviors which better enabled them to cope with this chronic condition, because we can observe similar adaptations in other animals.

Either gaydom is a response to overcrowding or it is a condition caused by overcrowding because it is directly related to reproduction. It provides a nonproductive outlet for sexual urges and so serves to reduce growth.

I am saying that this is probably WHY it occurs. You would blame satan wouldnt you?
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
So you consider homosexuality as aberrant behaviors. So do you think they should be allowed to donate blood?

Of course I care why things happen. It has been shown that sexual abuse, poor parenting especially lack of dedicated fathers, and sexually confused kids being told they are homosexuals as they are trying to sort out feeling, predisposes children to adopt the homosexual lifestyle. It is also known that the homosexual lifestyle is dangerous.

So I will speak out against child abuse, single parenthood, bad parenting, and leading children to and promoting homosexual behaviors.
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
Poor parenting and Progressives destroying the life of this poor 6 year old boy.

http://www.thebla...om-case/

Idiotic Progressives, a 2 year to 8 year old is not abnormal if they play dress up. It's called playing dress up. They are not transgendered. 1-8 year olds, unless sexually abused, have no sexual preference.

TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
ft:
"sexually confused kids being told they are homosexuals as they are trying to sort out feeling"

-Per the news:
"Coy was diagnosed with "gender identity disorder" — a designation the American Psychiatric Association removed last year from its list of mental ailments. The removal reflected the growing medical consensus that identification as another gender cannot be changed.

-And in related news, here is at least one xian who thinks that gays are born that way:

"Exodus International president Alan Chambers announced yesterday that the ex-gay ministry was shutting its doors, conceding that "reparative" therapy for gay people is ineffective and unhealthy. Chambers' note took the form of an apology for the "shame," "false hope," and "trauma" he caused would-be converts, pleading for forgiveness from "ex-gay survivors"
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jun 24, 2013
ft;
"So I will speak out against child abuse"

-This sounds like abuse to me:
"The Mathises said they feared the district's decision would stigmatize Coy, who was reduced to tears when her teacher briefly put her in the boys' line. When she came home, according to legal records, she cried to her parents: "Not even my teachers know I'm a girl!" When Coy rose to first grade, the district forbade her from using the girls' restroom."

ft:
"single parenthood"

-So are you advocating taking kids away from single parents??

ft:
"It is also known that the homosexual lifestyle is dangerous."

-It is also known that religions who force women to do nothing but reproduce until it kills them, is also dangerous. It is well known that religion-dominated societies routinely overpopulate, resulting in starvation, conflict, and war. These things are dangerous as well.

In regions which have adopted western secularism, peace reigns.

Religion is obviously more dangerous than gaydom. You are complicit.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jun 24, 2013
You cant have both. You cant HAVE religion and stable populations full of healthy, sane people. You cant HAVE religion and enduring peace.

Religions were good for conquering the world. They engendered 5 or 6 millenia of unending violence, sickness, depravity, and ruin in order to do this.

But the world is now conquered. Their time is past. They have ceased being useful and are now the greatest THREAT that the world faces.

All religion is one thing and it is all BAD. When religion ends, abortion will end. Poverty will end. People the world over will be living within their means. They will perceive themselves as equal members of a single tribe. They will be satisfied with who they are and what they have.

But this will never happen if there is at least one religion left on the planet, because there is never only ONE religion is there?
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
Love the word consensus. There was a consensus the world was flat. There was a consensus that the world was heading into an ice age. There was a consensus in Germany that Jews were subhuman.

BTW, here is a link to the apology as usual Otto, you are known to misquote and take words out of context. Context is always important, something you have failed to learn.

http://exodusinte...m-sorry/
I cannot apologize for my deeply held biblical beliefs about the boundaries I see in scripture surrounding sex, but I will exercise my beliefs with great care and respect for those who do not share them. I cannot apologize for my beliefs about marriage.
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
Otto, when religion ends we will be living like North Koreans do now.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
"Otto, when religion ends we will be living like North Koreans do now."

-No, communism was imposed upon those people in order to end the religion-dominated culture which was causing their problems for centuries. Same with china, russia, vietnam, cambodia, cuba et al.

This is obviously what communism was invented for because this is what it DOES and does very well. South korea is secular and democratic and they are doing fine arent they? So is vietnam. Cambodia is still religion-dominated and they still have massive problems.
freethinking
2 / 5 (4) Jun 24, 2013
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves. Each one should test their own actions.

Otto thinks if you get rid of Christianity the world will be a better place. Yup get rid of those who practice self control, mercy, love, kindness, and the world will be like the paradise of North Korea.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
ft says
"Context is always important, something you have failed to learn."

-And what context is it which changes the fact that the Exodus guy was apologizing for being WRONG?

Gays can live in hetero relationships when there is a need to populate. They may not be happy however. And perhaps there will be fewer people born gay when there is a need to populate.

Humans like any animal are happiest and healthiest living on the frontier. Quantity prevails over quality. ALL children are cherished. Everybody has lots to do.

Religions like to recreate this with the illusion that believers are members of a small and privileged group, surrounded by people a little less deserving than they. People who their god wants them to replace.

This is only an artificial form of the tribal dynamic. Of course they feel healthier, freer. Remember that the promised land was already full of people, at least initially. The next tribe is always a little less human than yours eh?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 24, 2013
Nice sermon. I like all the xian buzzwords like debauchery, idolatry, witchcraft. You xians are burning innocent women as witches at this very moment in africa, did you know it?

"Otto thinks if you get rid of Christianity the world will be a better place. Yup get rid of those who practice self control, mercy, love, kindness, and the world will be like the paradise of North Korea."

Otto KNOWS there will soon be no more need for communist martial law because the ancient obsolete religionist cultures which make it necessary, will have been destroyed.

And we will all be living on the frontier of a new age, just like the south koreans. Without superstition and empty meaningless bullshit sermonizing.
freethinking
1 / 5 (2) Jun 25, 2013
I can tell people the dangers of drugs and smoking and no one will say I'm drugaphobic
I can tell obese people that they should exercise and I won't be called a fataphobic
I can stand on a street corner and preach no heterosexual sex till marriage and I would NOT be dragged to a human rights tribunal.
I can refuse to make a cake, flower decorations, wedding invitations for second heterosexual marriages because I don't believe in divorce and not be sued.
But say the TRUTH about Homosexuals and their risks I'm called homophobic.
Refuse to support and affirm the dangerous Homosexual lifestyle by making cakes, providing flowers, etc and I'm dragged to court.
All I can say is PROGRESSIVE HYPOCRITES.

Governments and society by supporting and encouraging homosexuals LEADS to raping of boys.
http://dailycalle...ma-prep/

1% of the population commits 30% of the sexual assaults.
freethinking
1 / 5 (2) Jun 25, 2013
Otto, yea the early Christian's sure had it easy and all they wanted to do was get rich and populate the world

https://www.youtu...lUAGXRiM

Unfortunately too many people forget what the early Christian's lived for and died for.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 2013
I can tell people the dangers of religion and people will say I am an anti-religionist. The dangers of poop-eating and HIV pale in comparison to the dangers of overpopulation as aided and abetted by religion.

I watched 2 seconds of your vid. Martyrdom is the most heinous form of violence. Presenting yourself and your family for killing because of the LIE of some nonexistent god, is EVIL in the extreme.

"Unfortunately too many people forget what the early Christian's lived for and died for."

-Damn right. People should be constantly reminded that martyrs die for NOTHING.

"1% of the population commits 30% of the sexual assaults"

-And how many of them are religionists?
http://www.telegr...ims.html

-Your priests are consistently the worst offenders. Your religion gives them the opinion that your god will forgive them of anything.

Dont you realize how BLIND you are??

Of course you dont.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 2013
By the way, your vid is more deceptive xian mythology

"There is no evidence that the Tullianum was used for long-term incarceration, and the lowest dungeon was unsuited for the purpose; the level above, however, in theory might have been."

"Catholic Encyclopedia points out that the spring had existed long before, and that there is no "reliable evidence" of St. Peter's imprisonment there"

-You should research a little before perpetuating xian fairy tales.
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 2013
Otto, you are known to take things out of context, you are known to lie, and you hate people. Yet YOU have the gall to say you don't believe and even demean people who were eye witnesses to events, who never changed their story even under torture and death, who have had their statements verified by history, they gained nothing, no money and no girls (or boys). They admit that if what they say is a lie then they are to be pitied above all people. Yet the question is IF what they died for was the TRUTH, only a fool would ignore it.
Otto, if you are right about there being no God you admit that your life is meaningless then you die. If there is a God and you rejected him, after He sent messengers, your life is still meaningless but you squandered your chance of making your life have meaning and worth.

So what would it take for you to believe in God? The other question is, would you even follow Him if he said in this life all you'll have is suffering?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jun 25, 2013
"Yet YOU have the gall to say you don't believe"

-Because as I showed you, the bible is full of things we know did not happen.

"and even demean people who were eye witnesses to events, who never changed their story even under torture and death"

-Would you think the same of moslem, hindu, buddhist, or sikh martyrs who were just as convinced as your saints? People die for the stupidist of reasons. God is the top of the list.

"who have had their statements verified by history"

-'History which has subsequently been proven WRONG.

"they gained nothing, no money and no girls (or boys)."

Idiot. They still died for nothing.

"They admit that if what they say is a lie then they are to be pitied above all people. Yet the question is IF what they died for was the TRUTH, only a fool would ignore it"

-But they didnt die for truth. Neither did the martyrs of all those other religions.

"your life is meaningless then you die"

-Another foul religionist LIE. No god gives your life meaning.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jun 25, 2013
"So what would it take for you to believe in God?"

-This is simply not possible. As I demonstrated to you in the other thread, we have overwhelming evidence that the events supposedly described by your omniscient god in his book, NEVER HAPPENED. And so it is impossible for THAT GOD to exist.

You want to continue to lie to yourself, to others, to your children, and to permit yourself to be lied to by people like that charlatan whose book you referenced, be my guest.

But if you repeat those lies HERE you will be challenged and corrected. Because it is the right and proper thing to do. Understand?
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 2013
Otto, you are known to take things out of context, you are known to lie, and you hate people. Yet YOU have the gall to say you don't believe and even demean people who were eye witnesses to events, who never changed their story even under torture and death, who have had their statements verified by history, they gained nothing, no money and no girls (or boys). They admit that if what they say is a lie then they are to be pitied above all people. Yet the question is IF what they died for was the TRUTH, only a fool would ignore it.
Otto, if you are right about there being no God you admit that your life is meaningless then you die. If there is a God and you rejected him, after He sent messengers, your life is still meaningless but you squandered your chance of making your life have meaning and worth.

So what would it take for you to believe in God? The other question is, would you even follow Him if he said in this life all you'll have is suffering?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 2013
Here is but one example of the lengths people go to lie for religion, and be rewarded for it.

"In his award-winning account dubbed Padre Pio: Miracles and Politics in a Secular Age, the historian describes correspondence between Padre Pio and his pharmacist that suggest the saint used acid to mimic stigmata wounds, according to The Sun.

"Padre Pio is a popular saint among Italians, and a survey conducted around 2007 revealed "more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary," according to The Telegraph."
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 2013
Another;

"He has been called the Italian Schindler, credited with helping to save 5,000 Jews during the Holocaust. Giovanni Palatucci, a wartime police official, has been honored in Israel, in New York and in Italy...Pope John Paul II declared him a martyr, a step toward potential sainthood.

"But at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, the tale of his heroic exploits is being removed from an exhibition after officials there learned of new evidence suggesting that, far from being a hero, he was an enthusiastic Nazi collaborator involved in the deportation of Jews to Auschwitz. "

-What makes you think that the founders of your religion werent as devious as these two? The book is full of lies. We know this.

And so we assume that pio and palatucci were just part of a long tradition of liars and abusers who had absolutely no compunctions about promising people that they would live forever and have all their wishes granted if they would only believe.

Outrageous.
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 2013
Sorry for the previous double post.

If nothing can convince someone that something is or isn't real, then they are a fool.

Only one thing is needed to be proved for me to abandon Christianity. That one this is the body of Jesus. If you show me his body, or logically prove to me what happened to his body other than what is described in the bible, then I would abandon Christianity.

http://www.free-o...esus.htm
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 25, 2013
The Bible commands, PROVE all things...... I can tell stories of what happened to me to show the power of God, but I don't tell them. Why, because I cannot prove them. I have been criticized for this, however I personally believe if you can't prove it, don't speak it.

Stigmata I'm open minded enough to believe it COULD be real, so lets investigate it. (so far every one has proven false.)
Psychics, there is a million dollar bet that can make one of them rich, why has no psychic claimed the prize?
Faith healers, according to the Bible they need to prove that they actually healed someone. So anyone who doesn't isn't doing what the bible commands.
Prophets, well according to the bible they need to be 100% accurate,

The Bible commands that we have an open mind and that we question, investigate and either prove or disprove religious claims. Otto, by your own admission have a closed mind and nothing can change it.
freethinking
1 / 5 (2) Jun 25, 2013
The Bible commands, PROVE all things...... I can tell stories of what happened to me to show the power of God, but I don't tell them. Why, because I cannot prove them. I have been criticized for this, however I personally believe if you can't prove it, don't speak it.

Stigmata I'm open minded enough to believe it COULD be real, so lets investigate it. (so far every one has proven false.)
Psychics, there is a million dollar bet that can make one of them rich, why has no psychic claimed the prize?
Faith healers, according to the Bible they need to prove that they actually healed someone. So anyone who doesn't isn't doing what the bible commands.
Prophets, well according to the bible they need to be 100% accurate,

The Bible commands that we have an open mind and that we question, investigate and either prove or disprove religious claims. Otto, by your own admission have a closed mind and nothing can change it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 26, 2013
Prove all things, a sentiment from 1 thessalonians.but of 2 Thessalonians, scholars have this to say:

"Many today believe that it was not written by Paul but by an associate or disciple after his death, representing what they believed was his message. See, for example, Ehrman,[22] Gaventa,[23] Smiles,[24] Schnelle,[25] Boring,[26] and Kelly.[27] Norman Perrin observes, "The best understanding of 2 Thessalonians ... is to see it as a deliberate imitation of 1 Thessalonians, updating the apostle's thought."

-In other words a fake. The author claims to be Paul and signs it as such.

Evidence is not proof but this, along with the more obvious forgeries attributed to Paul, allows us to conclude with confidence that no honest, omniscient god wrote your book. Only liars who believed at the time that their deception would never be discovered.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 26, 2013
Padre pios 'stigmata' was self-inflicted. Despite being venerated by millions and declared a saint by the church we can conclude that he was a liar and a fake.

Your belief is founded on such fakery.
freethinking
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 26, 2013
Otto, since you love the Jesus Seminars,

http://christiana...017.html
http://www.equip....y-jesus/

But hey
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 26, 2013
" In that process of oral tradition, they were paraphrased, abbreviated, combined together in small collections, applied to a wide variety of situations in the early church, and ultimately put in the form in which we now find them by the writers of the Gospels themselves. However, we believe that all of this took place under the superintendence of the Holy Spirit"

-So the holy spirit condones people signing the names peter and Paul to works that we know they didn't write?? Forgery in the name of god is ok?

Why not - every sin imaginable is condoned in the bible when committed by the faithful.

God invented situational ethics.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jun 26, 2013
"[Seminarians] learn about the discrepancies and contradictions, they discover all sorts of historical errors and mistakes, they come to realize that it is difficult to know whether Moses existed or what Jesus actually said and did, they find that there are other books that were at one time considered canonical but that ultimately did not become part of Scripture (for example, other Gospels and Apocalypses), they come to recognize that a good number of the books of the Bible are pseudonymous (for example, written in the name of an apostle by someone else), that in fact we don't have the original copies of any of the biblical books but only copies made centuries later, all of which have been altered."

-So which of the many versions do you think is the genuine word of god? Is the catholic or eastern orthodox closer to gods heart? The kjv or the niv which differ in fundamental meaning in numerous places? The differing versions we have today or the differing versions from antiquity?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 26, 2013
Ahaahaa this is funny

"Historie" consists of the external and verifiable — real space-time events; this is objec tive history "Geschichte" con sists of events that are conceived to be true in mind or heart; it is internal and nonverifiable and constitutes "faith" or subjective history. There is no need for Geschichte to be based in His torie: "This distinction permits the assertion that something (say the resurrection of Jesus) is "true" [i.e.: geschichte] which is not "true" in the sense of history as-fact..."

IOW it doesn't matter what the truth is. It only matters what we want to be true.

Whether the bible was allegorical or not might matter less if we could read it while standing on the ruins of davids palace. But we can't because it doesn't exist and never did. We know where it is supposed to be, and we have found something else there instead.

We know that bible writers lied about most things. They SAID these things happened but they did not. There is no way to excuse this.